Topic: Pricing on Cleanaire HRV

Re: Pricing on HRV's... Investigate "Intelivent" 

Single glazed windows, particularly aluminium ones, will have moisture on them sometimes.
Perhaps a better solution would be some double glazing.
From some figures I've just had for acrylic sheet it appears you can do secondary double glazing for under $150 a square metre.
Fit this and you may find you don't need an HRV system at all.

Re: Pricing on HRV's... Investigate "Intelivent" 

isn't it all about the circulation of air in the home, if you can do this, esp. if it is drier air you will combat the mositure and crying window problem, both DVS and HRV will do this....simple.

Re: Pricing on HRV's... Investigate "Intelivent" 

It is about Air but....

I think your analogy is like saying "I can get to the 20th floor via the elevator or the stairs"

One will give a more pleasurable experience than the other.

PR

Re: Pricing on HRV's... Investigate "Intelivent" 

FYI, I've been working through all the information I can find on HRV systems and have decided on the Cleanaire system and plan to install it myself all for under $4000 because of the local support etc.
I also cannot understand why a reputable company that did a quote for me did not listen to anything I said about the house, i.e. Which rooms get very hot and should be used to vent air from and they go and put a vent in there to deliver air to the room....
I want to keep the house warm in winter not cool it down !!!
What has really got me through this is the number of companies ripping people off, easpecially after looking at importing HRV units out of China that would cost around $500 landed. Okay it has a polymer unit rather than aluminium and they do say they expect only a 10 year lifespan with an efficiency of 60% it will still do a better job than a DVS wont it?

Re: Pricing on HRV's... Investigate "Intelivent" 

I installed a Cleanaire HRV last year, doing all he work myself. I have 4 exhaust and 6 supply vents. In the future I will add vents for the downstair garage & study. The fresh air supply is filtered via a homemade "rubbish bin" filter, as per Avon Electric. instructions.
The system is working very well and has become a "hobby" in its own right as I figure out ways to improve it further.
I think the Cleanaire is somewhat underdeveloped it terms of additional features & am interested in hearing what other enthusiasts have done/are planning to do.
So far I have added an additional inlet to divert hot roof space air through the exhaust side of the heat exchanger. This feature works well providing additioanal heat in spring/autum, but we turn it off in summer as it not required then.

Cheers.

Re: Pricing on HRV's... Investigate "Intelivent" 

FordPrefect,

Are you happy with the cleanaire? Is it performing as expected? Any tips on the installation?

Re: Pricing on HRV's... Investigate "Intelivent" 

What's with all these anonymus posts????????

Some background:
When my wife gave me the ultimatum that the lack of home heating was becoming a divorcable offense, I set about looking at the house as a whole.
The three factors I decided necessary to achive this are:
a) Quality of indoor air (fresh air in/stale air out + removal of moisture & odour)
b) Heat retention (insulation & re-use of already heated inside air)
c) Cost effective heating source (paid for heating + free solar heat)

Purchase of the Cleanaire has been the 1st in a number of steps to achieve an energy efficient solution to raising comfort level of the whole house. A number of other initiatives, such as better insulation are also underway & heating is now provided by a heat pump.
An important point -already stated in previous posts- is that a heat exchanger is of no use if there is no heat to exchange.

To answer the 1st & 2nd questions: Yes & Yes. The Cleanaire has gives us high quality of indoor air, removes excess moisture & enables us to keep the windows closed. (My wife is a fresh air fiend & insisted on having the windows wide open in the middle of winter). We no longer need to use bathroom or kitchen extract fans. To aid this I installed a "showerdome" (They are great!!). to reduce bathroom moisture meaning I can meaning I can extract more air from the kitchen.
A side benefit of having the windows closed is a reduction in house dust & no bugs flying in!! I also figure that if I go for double glazing I will not require as many opening windows & therefore reduce the cost.

As stated previously, I view the Cleanaire as an underdevloped product, in the sense that I really wanted something that would both supply, extract, provide heat transfer and utilise hot roof space air. When I made my purchase, Mar 2008, I could find no product that could "do it all", however there may well be products out there now.
The Cleanaire is a solid product & I expect mine to still be operating in 25+yrs time.

To answer the 3rd question: Yes. I can probably write a small book ..... I'll post some stuff when I get more time & have had a chance to think about it.

Re: Pricing on HRV's... Investigate "Intelivent" 

ahem - after being critical of anonymous posts looks like I was not logged in when I responded in the 15th.......... :)

Re: Pricing on HRV's. 

I have been watching this thread for some months and after a very drawn out product investigation mixed in with what I have taken from this blog I am a week away from finally making the purchase. In the end it is down to ERV (Lossnay) vs. HRV (Cleanaire)....2 true “heat recovery” systems that use external air.
Anyway I made contact with a local “Heating Specialist Company” and they promptly visited our home with both HRV and HEATPUMP (need one of these too) information. They completed a “site inspection” and took away a copy of our house plans so they could map out vent locations etc.
Initially they pushed the Lossnay product and when I asked about Cleanaire they were aware of it but did not appear to supply it. However after a few days they advised that they could supply a cleanaire system which was great given I had already decided it would be one of 2 I would choose from.
When they returned they presented me with 2 sets of plans showing how the Lossnay would be installed in my home with vent locations and the same for the Cleanaire as follows:
- Lossnay 2 exhaust vents /3 supply vents (5 total) – Model claims 60% efficiency
- Cleanaire 5 exhaust vents / 6 supply vents (11 total) – Model claims 77% efficiency

With the Lossnay they marked vent locations but had also made contact with Mitsubishi as I had enquired about the possibility of having 2 internal exhaust vents instead of the advertised 1. I was told another could be added.
They also made contact with Cleanaire (Avon Electric), sent them our house plans and Avon Electric actually went through and marked where they recommended we put each of the 11 internal vents plus the 2 external vents. I was impressed with the extra effort and time both companies took to thoroughly investigate our requirements.
When priced up Lossnay was cheaper (expected) but the thing was the Cleanaire only cost 14% more (not top line model but good enough for our house size). Great value I thought given every room in our house would have a vent and some 2.
So for me it is Cleanaire and for those wondering no I am not on the payrole! I am no HRV expert but have simply taken on board all information available and made what I believe is a thoroughly informed and thought out choice. As such I have confidence in the product so do not expect to be disappointed when we finally get one installed in the next couple of weeks.
QUESTIONS PLEASE FOR EXISTING CLEANAIRE OWNERS/USERS?
- Is there a noise issue when running the Cleanaire system on either high or low?
- What would you recommend if anything to minimise noise i.e. specific placement of unit in the attic etc?
I expect there will be some noise (same for all types I suppose) so this will not change my mind though I am interested to see what current Cleanaire users have to say.

Re: Pricing on HRV's. 

Re: Clean-aire noise.
Have installed a cleanaire system recemtly and there is no noise even on high.
I certainly have to agree with another poster that it is a very underdeveloped system .. e.g. if you add a booster when the hot water is running there is no way to override and trun it off.
I had to get my sparky to do some re-wiring to overcome that issue.

Re: Pricing on HRV's. 

I installed a Cleanaire HRV system last year & this winter we having major problems. It blasts freezing air into our house where in fact it has now created a house colder inside than out!
The reason being we are told is our house is not (& cannot on our budget) have a heating system to bring it to the required 18 degrees to make it effective.
So its only only good if you already have a CONSTANTLY warm house... many of us can't afford to heat a house CONSTANTLY to the necessary temp.

Re: Pricing on Cleanaire HRV 

G reetings,I have recently worked for HRV(the company) I was not happy with their "style".Having since researched many similar companies,I was informed of the New Zealand Standard for home ventilation,NZ4303,published in 1993.During all the time I was with HRV the never even mentioned it's exsistance,in it states that air coming into the house must come from Outside,not from the roof,regardless of what people will tell you ther is no filter that will keep every 'nasty'out.I am now working as an independent broker,so if you wish to contact me I will give you unbiased advice on any aspects of home ventilation.

Re: Pricing on Cleanaire HRV 

Hi. Would be interested in talking to you - how can I contact you?

Re: Pricing on HRV's... Investigate "Intelivent" 

Hi. Would be interested in how you made your own system. My husband tells me he can do the same - a bit of advise would be great!

Re: Pricing on HRV's... Investigate "Intelivent" 

The best thing about single glazed windows is they act as a dehumidifier - just wipe away the moisture in the morning and throw it outside. Brilliant.
DIY double glazing.
Before last winter I spent $35 on a 3M product called 'Window Insulator Kit' from Mitre10 which did almost all the windows in our small house (Massively cheaper than $150 a metre!) It is a plastic film which is double-sided taped to the window surround and you point a hairdryer at it to shrink it slightly. It is invisible, hasn't deteriorated or changed colour in the sun over the summer. The kids use them like a drum.
Double glazing in a couple of hours!
I even put it over the louvres in the bathroom to stop cold air racing in - that 's not double glazing but it still helps enormously.
I wish I had shares in 3M!
J

Re: HRV Units 

Hot air claim under fire. Herald on Sunday June 21 2009
"Any claims that they heat your home are silly" - Bob Batenburg, General Manager, DVS

He said his company operated on the basis that heat could be generated "when available".

Re: Pricing on Cleanaire HRV 

Hi Eagle2, I am trying to make up my mind about what type of ventilation system to install in our home. Most of the systems I have investigated use the air in the roof cavity. From reading your comments, would it be correct to say that these systems do not comply to an approved standard and therefore illegal?

Another type of system draws in air directly from the outside. I have read that this type also has its problems with the air quality coming into the house when the air is polluted with smoke. One person commented that he had to pull his system out because every time his neighbour used their fireplace he got his neighbours smoke coming inside.

It seems either way you can't win. What would you suggest I do? I am looking at ventilating an old villa in Auckland that has an air volume of approximately 450 cubic metres. I would be interested to hear you opinion.

Re: Pricing on Cleanaire HRV 

Hi.

You're correct that installing a positive pressure system (e.g. HRV brand, DVS original) does not meet the NZ standards for ventilation since they don't use outside air.

However, the standard is usually met by having adequate openable windows in each room.

So, a PPV system is certainly not illegal, although in my opinion, some of the claims by some companies pushing them are less than honest.

Before throwing down good money on a PPV such as HRV, I'd strongly recommend you do your research. This is a link to a very comprehensive study I've read:

http://www.eeca.govt.nz/sites/all/files/home-ventilation-systems-09.pdf

There seems to be a lot of debate about whether these Roof cavity systems actually provide any meaningful heating when it's wanted. Rather than listening to some of the ill-informed forumites, I'd suggest you read the excellent description in the above report.

Matt

Re: Pricing on Cleanaire HRV 

Hi Matt
Great link to the eeca doc.
Thanks
KC

HRV 

I"ve had two HRV's over the years and they were brilliant. The house was as if it was rebuilt or something. Even my illnesses cleared up with the cleaner air.
I calculated I would get something like 5000-8000 m3 of air through my home on an average day. Now as my roof doesn't hold more than about 370m3 of air, the fresh air would have to come from the outside wouldn't it? This way is was prewarmed by nature. Brilliant!
I have since gone for a SAYR as their filter is down to .3 microns the best in the market at the moment. They are just new in Auckland.

Re: HRV 

That above report makes interesting reading - it suggests that a true HRV system in an older house (like our villa) will actually increase your heating costs because the house is not airtight, and will continue losing air. Are the benefits of heat-exchange systems not realised with an older house? Maybe better to stick with a PPV system?

Re: HRV 

It's not just older houses that suffer, our new (ish) 3 year old house has those hideous recessed downlights and they also leak air into the roof cavity and reduce the efficiency of the HRV system.

I had no idea until I asked Negawatt in Wellington to come and do a quote, worth bearing in mind.

Re: HRV 

Here a link to the article on downlight badness:

http://www.cleanaire.co.nz/Design+your+HRV/The+Problem+with+Vented+Downlights.html

langers: Did Negawatt actually state how much of a problem downlights caused? Easy to understand that they can be a problem, but I can't see anyone to actually put some sort of hard figure to it.

Re: HRV 

I think that the article you've highlighted explains it, basically unless the room is practically airtight then the whole system is basically not going to work.

Re: Pricing on HRV's... Investigate "Intelivent" 

RE your post of 30 September 08. Did you get a contractor in New Plymouth for Intelivent? And did you install in the end. We are building a house on the coast there and are looking at the most eco-friendly options of heat and ventilation.