Topic: good old ali windows and single glazing

good old ali windows and single glazing 

I thought this was interesting and worth posting. however, if anyone wishes to comment please be polite.
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fon.fb.me%2FLd3zfY&h=cAQE7QwnM

Re: good old ali windows and single glazing 

We are always polite :-))
Shame on all who made it possible that this has been standard for so many years.
And every piece of DG is wasted in such window frames.

Re: good old ali windows and single glazing 

Would like to see this test repeated with double glazed windows with non-thermally broken aluminium frames.

Re: good old ali windows and single glazing 

What do you want to test here?
Aluminium is the second highest heat conductor amongst common building materials behind copper.

Re: good old ali windows and single glazing 

The first test showed how effective aluminium is at conducting heat compared to a single pane of glass.
Retesting it with double glazing would really show how good it is.
This would prove your statement that "...every piece of DG is wasted in such window frames."

Re: good old ali windows and single glazing 

But the aluminium remains the same with the DG.
Combining an insulated glass unit with a frame made of one of the least insulating materials doesn't make sense? There is nothing to prove this simple fact of physics called thermal conductivity.
Or do you go out with a fur coat and shorts ?

Re: good old ali windows and single glazing 

FB link in OP no longer seems to work but I assume the problem is with heat transfer via the ali' joinery in DG window units. Having replaced 6 windows with DG units we have found sound insulation is great but thermal insulation fails initially via the frames but with condensation migrating across the entire pane under frosty outside and humid inside conditions.

When ordering the DG units I enquired after thermally broken joinery but was advised that this was only an option for heavier commercial grade joinery. After discussion with tradesmen it would seem that thermally broken joinery is a rare commodity on the NZ market!

Re: good old ali windows and single glazing 

I'd try a different tradesman. Thermally broken frames may have been a rare commodity in the past, but is changing rapidly.

One supplier I've spoken to recently quotes approximately a 15% premium for thermally broken frames (versus non-thermally broken) for double glazing for a new build. Potentially about $3,000 well spent.

Re: good old ali windows and single glazing 

The problem is that the "standard" aluminum joinery in NZ is technically a complete failure but the companies behind it are so powerful that they still dictate the Government to bend the code around their substandard products and limited technical abilities.
The solution is don't buy that stuff and it will be history in a blink of the eye.
There are a number of window manufacturers now which thermally insulated frames in aluminium (Schueco), IV68 timber-aluminium, uPVC and IV68 timber.
These European designed windows are not just thermally efficient but they also come with real hardware, rather than some ridiculous latches.
A good tradesperson would be aware of thermally efficient windows by now.

Re: good old ali windows and single glazing 

@Matthew,

but you will still get ridiculous hardware which is not secure, doesn't seal the joinery and no adjustment if your timber framed structure moves over time.
And glazing beads on the outside are another significant security problem.

Re: good old ali windows and single glazing 

Totally agree that standard Alu options are crap.
Though there are really good solution out there. Comes down to cost/investement. Need to think long term.

I've installed uPVC with double glazing. Windows opening to inside, rubber seal all around. Comes with proper hardware; one locking point on hinge side and two on handle side. Glazing is put in from inside.
All very secure.
Rubber seal is tightened when locking window.
Perfect, love it!

Re: good old ali windows and single glazing 

You make a good point about good hardware.

Another recommendation, regardless of the frame material, is to use latches that allow for passive ventilation while still being safe against an intruder.
This is very simple to do, for example by using a double-tongue style latch. But so often overlooked.

Re: good old ali windows and single glazing 

None of those rather flimsy latches can be considered as secure, no matter whether you use one or two or three, single or double tongue, they remain kind of toys.
A multi point locking mechanism with one handle is more effective and practical.

Re: good old ali windows and single glazing 

I agree, the first time I saw 'tilt and turn' joinery, I was very impressed. This example is from NK, http://www.nkwindows.co.nz

Re: good old ali windows and single glazing 

Hi Guess what, I think you just forgot to consider the thermally broken suite from Unicco into your test with a U-value 0.9.

Re: good old ali windows and single glazing 

If you look on our profile you can see what is state of the art in thermally broken joinery.

Re: good old ali windows and single glazing 

What makes a good window?
Sorry I have to say it again "EUROPE" has a standard for in brake resistance WKI WKII WKIII. The window you can see in this test is a WKII standard window.
All our windows come as standard with WKII.

Re: good old ali windows and single glazing 

Sorry I forgot

http://www.unicco.co.nz/http___www.unicco.co.nz/window_test.html

Re: good old ali windows and single glazing 

http://www.unicco.co.nz/http___www.unicco.co.nz/home.html
These are Stunning looking and no doubt are very high quality windows, I wonder how they compare cost wise to other high end window products such as http://www.eurovision-ltd.co.nz/

Re: good old ali windows and single glazing 

In Europe the ali windows are often highest cost of all materials.
They are well insulated with great performance which can only be achived at a cost.
New Zealand designed ali windows are cheapest because it is a shortcut product in all aspects and little value for money.
In residential building the eurovision windows or good quality uPVC is more cost effective than european ali windows without compromising performance

Re: good old ali windows and single glazing 

Oh. Nice pictures of cool shiny stuff! Thanks 'life and slide'.

Always good to see good quality. Are you going to be at the Auckland Home Show?

Re: good old ali windows and single glazing 

Hi Matthew,
sorry we have much going on at present and just could not provide the manpower for the show, we will be there the next Year to show our products.
Cheers Manfred