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Topic: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand

by Anonymous 17 Apr 09, 135 replies : Last Post Sort by:
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14 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 20 Jan 12 5:49 PM
Hi Meridian Power are offering a one to one deal up to a 10 kWh system. In Auckland this can produce over 50kwh of power every day based on the 5.62 sunshine hours.

54 x 185 mono =9990 kwh x 5.62 = 56 x 09% = 50.53 x 356 = 18443.45 x 0.26 cents = $4795.00 from day one. Cost for this system $47567.00 Gst inclusive.

$47567 / 4795.00 = 9.92 years. With power going up by only 2% every year will have the system payed off in 6.5 years and this is over a 11% return.

Nissan and Toyota and Mitsubishi are now selling totally electric cars.

0800PVSOLAR if you want the facts and figures.


332 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 20 Jan 12 8:28 PM
Northside

I gotta take exception to you using 5.62 peak sun hours a day every day for a whole year for Auckland, when the NASA data is closer to 4.5 peak sun hours a day on average for the 365 days in a year: so I reckon you would need to de-rate your output by another 20% at least.

Can you please point me to your source of facts and figures?

4 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 20 Jan 12 8:57 PM
hmmmm I think that's a bit to much too.
we are continually testing out solar panels and even though we get 5 hours plus sun per day it does not mean we get full charge, actually in most cases we do not get that, apart from that solar panels start dropping there full charge after 10 years

the reason we only use 48 volt is that the wind generator supports that and being a hybrid system it needs to be 48 volt all over.
96 volt is getting pretty big and it would be ideal for a 10 KW system but i am happy to test this for the house hold as with both they compensate each other night and day
batteries get full during the day when there is no one home and then the wind generator keeps the charge up at night
I do have wind generators up to 3.1MW but I don't think the average bloke can afford that,
the 50KW is 690volts even that is not liked by the average person, getting to expensive for them.

I have not gone into the NZ wind areas yet but will start testing in Otago in about 6 months.
you still have plenty of grace yet(smiling)

But with what you say the solar panels are cost wise I will not even bother to import them, maybe just buy them off you.

inverters from 6 KW and up for off grid only , what do you do for that , what type are they,
I am not to keen on CMS and all the other mongrals are rip offs,
no one can tell me that they cost that much to manufacture. I have been given prices from some companies for $17,000.00 and below for a 6 KW inverter,
I started laughing and told them they were dick ****** its only a bloody computer type box with wiring .

I see the Indians are jumping up and down to, on another site because of the cost to inverters, they say there is no way they can afford them and are forced to buy Chinese manufactured ones.
lol (I just realised what I said >>jumping up and down) I mean the people from India.
but I totally agree with them.
I am still looking for a inverter that is A&NZ approved that is affordable to the home owner.

I look at pricing to , sure make a profit, without ripping people off and so I may sleep at night.

332 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 20 Jan 12 9:43 PM
Yes inverter pricing seems very curious. NZS/AS4777 (and other international) certification I guess. At the end of the day, if you want to tie into a power system, compliance is critical - moral of story: don't tie into the power system.

As for cheap panels, I am trying to figure out whether "tier 1" panels are worth the price premium over "tier 2" panels and "tier 3" etc. I'm relatively relaxed about tier 3 if I am offered correspondingly lowest prices - in my view, a lower price panel would allow better market penetration, and arguably better support when a panel needs replacing at end of their specified (probably shorter) lives: especially since you can BET that the newer panels will be higher efficiency and lower price again.

As prices fall, the need for 25 year performances becomes much less important: what would be useful is standard characteristics for swap out/swap in, without the need to go to micro or string inverters to get over panel mismatches.

(New commercial panels which are being brought onto the market now at up to 25% efficiency sound great, but they simply have not been around that long (only a few months at present) for the figure to have commercial validity).

14 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 21 Jan 12 8:00 AM
any one who wants to see the sunshine data have a look at http://www.emigratenz.org/NewZealandSunshine.html

2050 / 365 = 5.62 sunshine hours every day.
54 x 185 mono =9990 kwh x 5.62 = 56 x 90% = 50.53 x 365 = 18443.45 x 0.26 cents = $4795.00 from day one.
Cost for this system $47567.00 Gst inclusive.

332 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 21 Jan 12 9:23 AM
Northside:
You can't use an immigration website with extremely generalised sunshine hours as definitive sunshine data for solar insolation in order to sell PV panels.

The Fair Trading Act and Consumers Guarantee Act come to mind.

For forum members that are interested in actual researched facts in order to make an informed decision on actual PV potential for themselves, Murial Watt wrote a definitive paper on potential PV performance in NZ dated April 2009:
www.med.govt.nz/sectors-industries/energy/pdf-docs-library/energy-data-and-modelling/pv-in-new-zealand.pdf


332 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 21 Jan 12 9:29 AM
In particular pages 51 to 55 of the report (these page references are to the numbers printed on the pages).




332 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 21 Jan 12 10:58 AM
I guess I have a bee in my bonnet about the info in this thread, and I'll go further:

From figure 6.3 on page 53 of the report I cited, you can expect just over 1300 kWh p.a. from each kW installed for Auckland, at optimal fixed tilt.

So for 54 panels of 185W derated by 10% as per Northside's calcs, you'll have roughly 9kW of installed capacity, which would give you 11700kWh p.a., rather than that of over 18400kWh p.a. given by Northside, or a whopping 36% less.

So if using Northside's numbers you breakeven with the currently generous Meridian offer in 10 years, it is more like 15.6 years!!!

AND without the generous Meridian offer which can be changed by the stroke of a pen, and you have to sell into the wholesale market which looks like roughly 8c/kWh from the graphs I posted earlier in the thread, which is about one third of Meridian's offer, your payback becomes 45 years or thereabouts.

The problem I am having with this thread relates to p***poor and misleading info.

PV are actually going to be great and money saving and liberating and clean and will help in managing energy use in the home, so in my view us sellers should at least get the facts straight so people aren't mislead when the decision to go to PV is made.

14 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 21 Jan 12 7:44 PM
The panels I sell work at 90% for 10 years and 80 there after. Ring the marketing director at meridian to confirm this.
Maths again
185 x 54 = 9990 kw x 90% = 8.991 kwh X 5.62 =50.529kwh per day 18443.45 per year first ten Years
14754 per year after 10 to 25 or further.
You would still need a 10kwh grid inverter. I sell these for $4500 each. With AS4777 and vectors network settings.

332 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 21 Jan 12 8:15 PM
Northside: Stop using 5.62 sunshine hours a day multiplied by the rating of the panels - that sunshine hours figure is totally misleading.

14 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 21 Jan 12 8:20 PM
DA 2050/365 is 5.62

34 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 22 Jan 12 10:50 AM
Northside, 18443 kwhrs for a 10kw system is just nonsense. I have a 5040w system with an absolutely optimal site an I got 7700kwhrs in the first year of operation. I used Niwa's Solarview calculator to figure out how much power from the sun I would get. That turned out to be pretty accurate.

http://www.niwa.co.nz/our-services/online-services/solarview

111 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 22 Jan 12 7:30 PM
PV Watts V1 . Put in 1kw and it says 1243 kwh pa.



111 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 22 Jan 12 7:40 PM
So lots of differing data . If I use 95 percent rating it comes up with 1542 pa.
Anyway solar Chris your actual data would be the best to follow . Is this grid tie or off grid?

14 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 22 Jan 12 8:41 PM
Hi Here is the data I believe.
Auckland get 2050 sun shine hours every year.
So 2050/365=5.62 hours.

54 x 180 watt panels will produce 9990kwh every hour.

9990x 90% = 8991kw
so 8991 x 5.62 =50.529 kwh every day.

50.529 x 365 =184443.25 kwh.

@.27 cents $4979.67. at least

I only sell mono crystalline panels. These make power in the cloud and rain.

Calculations are based on sunshine data only.
So the power generated in the rain and cloudy weather is a bonus.

www.northside-solar.co.nz

Check out my listing on Trade Me.
Search 185 watt mono.

111 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 22 Jan 12 9:15 PM
some of those hours may be in the early morning or evening so the output from your panels may be allot reduced at these times?

332 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 22 Jan 12 9:26 PM
Northside: you are using poor sunshine data and overstating your outputs.

Everytime someone does a search for your website name, the search engine optimisation algorithms will troll through and probably find a few of the posts on this site and show the words after your name: do you really want to carry on this conversation?

Why the data used by Northside is poor:
1. Using an immigration website as a source of sunshine data is questionable - that is where you have said your 2050 sun shine hours every year is sourced from;
2. Solar panel rated outputs are given for ideal sunshine conditions with the sun directly hitting a panel at its angle of inclination. Even a miniscule cloud will make the panel outputs plummet, especially for mono crystalline panels. As the earth moves around all day, even if there are 6 or 8 or 10 hours of sunshine, the panel will not be putting out its rated output for anything like that.

Although the purported sunshine hours for our various provinces and the competition between those provinces to claim the highest sunshine hours a year is fun to watch, you cannot just multiply these sunshine hours by the rating of a panel to get its supposed output - it is total fiction.

170 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 22 Jan 12 9:55 PM
Classic sales pitch - over promise and under deliver.

Genesis charge 17c per kWhr in Christchurch - hence 50kW hrs per day is perhaps worth $3,100.

As Seeker so rightly points out telling customers that they would get maximum output at all times is incorrect, possibly 2/3rds of that figure would be closer. $2,000.

How many people have a suitable sized roof to even attempt this?

Northside - you risk running foul of the Fair Trading Act - misleading and deceptive practice. Potential $200,000 fine.

JK

64 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 23 Jan 12 12:52 AM
As usual, we are a bit behind here, but I don't think we'll be able to dodge the bullet forever... and when that happens things will actually go better for us people.
A few posts mentioned a "generous" Meridian pay for a solar energy fed back into the grid, but have a look at Europe... Most countries pay significantly more than they charge for the same. Europe has a big 2050 carbon emission goal to meet with the intermediate binding 2020 goal. This means "nearly zero energy homes" by 2020 and a minimum required amount of renewable energy production per house.
Germans were getting nearly 4 times the cents for their solar kWh until 2 years ago which has halved last year, but still get more than they have to pay for kWh (it has gone down since the growth has by far exceeded the expectations with 900 000 installed PV systems by now and 7,5 Gigawatt/year growth in last two years).
I can only hope that someone will poke us in the back and move us forward, so jumping on that boat might pay off much quicker in years to come. The Government will have to subsidize/stimulate the development.
Paying the price of a highest quality German system for the Chinese one is also not right. I can only encourage people to import from Europe and check their options before they invest their money. A friend has recently imported a number of things for his house build from China and 1 out of 5 things is actually pretty good, the other four things are miserable junk absolutely not worth. I can only expect those 4 to fail within a few years and would expect a similar ratio from the Chinese
solar panels, heat-pumps and other junk polluting our environment.
I will be able to post some prices for the solar systems in a few weeks and if there is enough interest, we could do a collective order and land a good quality equipment in NZ at a good price.

Thanks,
Dejan.

http://www.erec.org/policy/eu-policies/future-energy-policy-2050.html
http://www.erec.org/policy/eu-policies/energy-performance-of-buildings-directive.html



220 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 23 Jan 12 7:10 AM
Dejan: The high prices paid in Europe for home generation are due to subsidies by the respective governments so consumers pay for them via taxes. Similarly the Meridian price might be considered a subsidy by that company which is absorbed by their other customers and the government as the owner. As home generation is likely only a tiny percentage business at the moment it is likely not an issue. I'm a fan of solar but the facts need to be recognized.

China now dominates the manufacture of solar cells so that capacity has driven the price to current record low levels. I doubt there are significant quality differences between mainstream Chinese manufacturers and Germany.

472 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 23 Jan 12 8:17 AM
Hello Dejan,

You comment:
“Europe has a big 2050 carbon emission goal to meet with the intermediate BINDING 2020 goal. This means "nearly zero energy homes" by 2020 and a minimum required amount of renewable energy production per house - The Government will have to subsidize/stimulate the development.”

Following your links we read a paper (my summary) from Prof. Arthouros Zervos
President of EREC (European Renewable Energy Council)

“Supporting the transition towards a 100% renewable energy economy with all EU policy areas”
Translation: Governments will direct investment, municipal development, and transport systems Etc. toward this goal without any concern or the economic cost / benefit ratio as it equate to non renewable energy costs.
The taxpayer picks up the difference.

“Binding renewable energy targets for 2030”
Translation: Penalties imposed on the suppler for non- achievement.
The taxpayer indirectly pays the penalty through transferred costs.

“Full liberalisation of the energy market”
Don’t know what that verbalise means but I bet it will be under some Government or bureaucratic control.
The taxpayer will pay the overhead costs.

“Phasing out all subsidies for fossil and nuclear energy and introducing an EU-wide carbon and energy tax”
“Carbon costs are estimated by year 2020 to be E$500 billion, INCREASING by year 2060 to E$3800 Billion”
Translated: THE TAXPAYER PICKS UP THE LOT.

But hold on – there is one cost benefit.
“There will be additional jobs of 2.8 million by year 2020 rising to 6.0 million by year 2050 for all the new ‘green jobs’ created”.
However, if we go by the ‘green’ experience in Spain who started this ‘green’ change 10 years ago, there will be an overall reduction in all jobs, leading a once booming economy, into a now collapsing economy.

Dejan, this is not the direction I would wish for NZ.
When the ‘decarbonisation’ craze is finally halted by the burgeoning current science questioning, challenging and voiding the validity of the dubious anthropogenic CO2 warming hypothesis claim, we can all get back to the rational use of energy without distortions using taxpayer subsidies.

Rex

491 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 23 Jan 12 11:18 AM
@Rex

The economic crises in Spain is not caused by the turn to renewable energy.
Why wouldn't you want zero energy houses in NZ?
No more money wasted for energy, less dependency of the individual from the suppliers.
And with a bit of expertise from Europe it is quite easy to achive in the milder NZ climate.
We would have much better and healthier houses by now but there are just too many people with "can't do attitude" and "don't want to" attitude in the industry.
You can never have progress without a risk but the state of current housing shows clearly that we missed the progress train some years ago.

472 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 23 Jan 12 3:25 PM
Hello ‘Guess What’,

Spain is the world’s fourth biggest producer of Wind power and the fourth largest manufacturer of Solar & PV, and they cannot make it economically work.

Spain has spent E$40,000.000,000 in 10 years subsidising it’s ‘green’ experiment that has turned out to be an abject failure.

It spent E$7500 in subsidies for each ‘green’ job created but only one in ten ‘green’ jobs became permanent.

Since 1997, it has lost 2.2 jobs for every ‘green’ job created and those workers made redundant can not find work in conventional industry.

Conventional industry has been hit so hard with rising power prices that hundreds have gone out of business or left Spain. Spain’s unemployment rate is now 20%.

So ‘Guess What’, you say all this has not been a major contributor to Spain’s current financial problem?
Yeah right!
And you are promoting this same failed Solar and Wind experiment for NZ, based on some ‘feel good factor’ instead of cold hard reality?
What I am clearly stating is that it would be an absolute disaster for NZ to adopt this European attitude that relies on ‘subsidies to solve all our problems’ - THEY WON’T – all that will happen is the law of unintended ’green’ consequences will blow up our economy – just like it did in Spain.
And this is the ‘risk’ you say is worth promoting?

Don’t try to confuse the issue. No where in my post did I say we should not aspire to a ‘zero energy house’, or not lift the quality of construction and liveability for a healthier home – these are all desirable and achievable.
It has absolutely nothing to do with Kiwi attitude which you seen to suggest is inferior to that from Europe, as we were the first in the world to eliminate subsidies. Europe is lagging well behind.

I recommend more research:
http://www.juandemariana.org/pdf/090327-employment-public-aid-renewable.pdf

Rex

3 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 23 Jan 12 7:41 PM
Hear hear. I came from the UK where I worked as a vet. Over there they subsidised the dairy industry, which just lead over time to some very random genetic selection. Because they paid by milk solids contents, the cows were being bred to this end. This led to a population of cows with huge udders, continuous problems with mastitis and skeletal problems. And bankrupt farmers. We envied the NZ system that operated without subsidies and consequently had very healthy cows and farmers with comparatively better bank balances.
The upshot, government subsidies are not neccesarily a good way to promote something and can lead to unpleasant side effects...

332 posts
Re: Solar Panel Prices in New Zealand 
Posted 23 Jan 12 8:06 PM
I'm with Rex on this one as well. I am totally against feed-in tariffs - "over my dead body" is how I feel about them: to me they are a way for people who can semi afford PV to get something they won't fully pay for themselves, and the people who are least able to afford their power bills end up subsidising this charade.

The way PV prices are plummeting, we should not be thinking about feed-in tariffs but about breakeven price or breakeven point when amenity values are taken into account.

Some parts of Aussie are at grid parity now: other parts will follow soon enough, and we [NZ] will follow after that - it would be a bit of a shock when we see Aussie installers crossing the ditch - this direction!!!

 

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